you all seemed like you were in pain there. with us on set, national affairs editor for "new york magazine" and analyst john heilemann is here. and msnbc and "time" magazine senior analyst mark halperin. and in washington, chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. >> look at the scarf. >> i am wearing my colors. >> mika, would you like to talk about the game? >> you know, i was so engrossed in it. i don't want to intimidate you all. >> you have no idea who won, do you? >> looks like the redskins. my dad was watching. he loves football. >> willie, here's the deal. you have dr. james andrews from my hometown. >> yep. >> and he's on the sidelines. and you've got the franchise player. and he's -- and shanahan did this earlier in the year. the guy gets hurt. shanahan shoves him back onto the field. you've got a rookie quarterback who, of course, is going to want to go in and play.

that was just reckless, reckless negligence, not with a guy in his final year, but a guy in his first year who's your franchise player. i'm telling you, man. shanahan is taking too many chances with this great player. i mean, i think that's almost a fireable offense. he was hurt. >> it was awful. it was really hard to watch. it was like watching a fighter who's got one eye closed. he can't move his left arm. and of course, he wants to stay in the ring. he wants to show he's got guts, he's got courage. somebody, the guy in the corner, the doctor, has to step in and say he should not be in the ring or in this case on the field. and don't forget that same dr., james andrews, you mentioned came out over the weekend and said he didn't authorize griffin to go back in the game a few weeks ago when he was hurt. shanahan didn't let him look at griffin. he just said to griffin, are you

okay? he said of course. as a quarterback would. >> just for people who follow football, dr. james andrews is the best of the best. >> he's it. >> there's not a second. you have him on your sidelines because you've got the best player, you know, the greatest franchise player that the redskins have had. >> it's also just so shortsighted. this guy, he's your rookie quarterback, he runs around anyway. he's going to get beat up. this can't go on like this. >> and it's not like you or me or the second-string quarterbacks for the redskins. >> right. >> they've got a great second-string quarterback. listen, shanahan -- shanahan should be fired, man. i'm serious. andrea, i see you disagreeing. you do not -- you do not risk your franchise a couple of times in a month the way shanahan has. >> look, we were 3-6, shanahan brought us to the point where we won 7 in a row. it was far beyond what anyone had expected from this team.

this team is rg3, but it's also alfred morris, it's also kai forbath. there are a lot of people who are responsible for the success. yes, it is the quarterback. i'm not going to second-guess mike shanahan. he said, look, he earned it. he said to me, i'm okay. i can go back in. >> why wouldn't you second-guess him, andrea? you guys live on the same block? i mean, why would you not second-guess -- the guy -- rg3, your franchise, was beaten up, battered and bruised. my 9-year-old daughter could watch that game and say, he's really hurt. he shouldn't be playing. >> it was terrible to watch. i'm not going to kid you. i was there. >> so why did the coach keep him out there? >> i've never heard 90,000 people go silent in that fashion. i've never experienced anything like that. but i don't know everything that went into it. i just -- i'm not going to be a monday morning quarterback of mike shanahan until i hear more

about exactly what wept on. >> well, i will tell you sunday night, mark halperin, i saw several times where rg3 couldn't complete simple tasks on the field. >> he couldn't play on his foot. >> when he had to run -- yeah, if you can't plant your foot, sometimes that affects your ability to throw. he also limped out of bounds on a run. he was clearly damaged. and coming off -- again, this happened a couple weeks ago where dr. james andrews said, i didn't give this guy clearance to play. >> look, the first thing is, i think andrea mitchell, we now know, is from the george allen school, the future is now. this is the opposite end of the spectrum of the other -- >> i'm from the bruce allen school. >> the other big washington, you know, young play superstar, strasburg and the nationals, they were super cautious with him. they took him out when a lot of people said he should still play. the quarterback says he wants to

play, rookie or not, he's their leader. he said he could play. it's the playoffs. leave it all on the field. i'm agreeing with andrea. >> you're agreeing with andrea? >> if he brought hem to where they were -- >> what do you think he's going to say? >> you do know that boxers have died in the ring for having corner men with attitudes such as yours. >> he's an nfl quarterback. >> i actually thought mark was going to make the opposite point because the way they've handled strasburg with the nationals has been a model of caution and it's worked out really well for the nationals. i'm with the anti-shanahan caucus here. i'll also say that even if you take the rg3 thing out, pete carroll outcoached shanahan all game long. beyond even the decision to keep the quarterback in. shanahan made four, five huge mistakes in coaching over the course of the game. i think you have a reason to fire him even if he hadn't screwed up the rg3 thing. >> i would argue going fourth down and 14, that that was a big mistake. >> yeah. >> there were still 4:30 left or something. >> that's more time than is left

in this block. >> even if you weren't concerned about the health of rg3, what about the health of your team winning the game? he couldn't use his leg. he couldn't throw the ball. he hit his hand on somebody's helmet. it gives you a better chance to win. >> it's not as if what happened last night on the field is not going to have an impact on this young man's career over the next ten years. as you know, i'm an atlanta falcons fan. i saw michael vick do things the first two things in the nfl i've never seen any quarterback do before. that guy would be in midfield, he would have 11 guys coming after him, and he'd just look at them and laugh, plant his leg and break another direction. he couldn't do that after a couple of knee injuries. that's happening to rg3. i guarantee you, rg3 is not the athlete next year that he was this year because of what happened at the end of the game. we've seen it time and time again. knee injuries like that slow you down. maybe just that much. >> he can't play like this next season. forget what this injury, forget

that game. >> he will if shanahan's his coach. >> can't. he will be done if he plays like that another season. >> if shanahan's his coach. let me tell you something. when you play in that third game in carolina, you've got to win it at all costs next year. because if you lose, you'll be 2-1. you get the point. i mean, you never, with a guy like this, this young, play for the now. >> and the line that he said he wanted to stay in. that zndoes not hold any water. of course he did. he's a great competitor. any athlete would say that. anyway. mikka? >> another battle in washington obviously is over chuck hagel. that's going to be the big news. >> that's a fantastic transition. let me do that now. today president obama is expected to nominate former republican senator chuck hagel of nebraska as the next defense secretary. hagel, a decorated vietnam combat veteran, would be the first enlisted soldier to hold that cabinet post. his confirmation, however, is --

can you believe this -- shaping up to be a testy battle with the republicans. even though he is a republican. a number of republicans have suggested they will challenge their former colleague with tough questions on his foreign policy record. >> his views with regard to israel, for example, and iran and all the other positions that he's taken over the years will be, you know, i think very much a matter of discussion during the confirmation process. >> so you're not predicting smooth sailing for chuck hagel? >> i think it will be a lot of tough questions of senator hagel, but he'll be treated fairly by republican s in the senate. >> quite frankly, chuck hagel is out of the mainstream of thinking i believe on most issues regarding foreign policy. i expect the president to nominate people different than i would think. i'm going to vote for senator kerry. i don't agree with him a lot, but i think he's very much in the mainstream of thought. chuck hagel, if confirmed to be

secretary of defense, would be the most antagonistic secretary of defense toward the state of israel in our nation's history. he has long severed his ties with the republican party. this is an in-your-face nomination by the president to all of us who are supportive of israel. >> lindsey graham is saying that chuck hagel is out of the mainstream. okay. >> this is being said, by the way, of a war hero. >> right. >> this is important. a war hero who still carries slab ne shrapnel around with him. and we know him for many different things, but this is a guy that runs the atlantic council, which is about as mainstream an organization as you will get in foreign policy. >> mm-hmm. >> and we've worked with him a great deal through the atlantic council. he is a realist. he is not from the lindsey graham school of foreign policy but rather from the brent

scowcroft school of foreign policy. the dr. brzezinski school of foreign policy, the colin powell school of foreign policy, the george h.w. bush school of foreign policy, the james baker iii school of foreign policy. so if anybody out there wants to say that chuck hagel is outside the mainstream of foreign policy, i suggest they turn the mirror around on them because i suggest anybody saying that of the guy that's running the atlantic council and is from the realist school of colin powell, james baker iii, george h.w. bush, brent scowcroft, zig nbig brzezinski. >> i should point out that i've known him for decades, and he's a friend of the family. so obviously this comes from that point of view as well. i want to get to the bill

kristol part of this, alex, and then go to andrea. >> can we get andrea first? >> sure. >> because we just heard lindsey. >> andrea. >> you and joe have made the point that he is a mainstream foreign policy expert who is supported by just about every retired military person i know and every retired diplomat. i've got tom pickering. you don't have a more experienced former ambassador than tom pickering coming on our show today. he has universal support. i have not found anyone in the diplomatic community and the established military community who does not support him. he has a very close personal relationship with the president. he's been on the foreign intelligence advisory board. he traveled with jack reed in '08 when the president was running as a candidate, when we all went overseas and did iraq, afghanistan, the middle east and europe trip. so he's got all of those credentials. he ran a business. he's from nebraska. at the same time, they're against him because he endorsed

his former senate colleague, bob kerrey, a long shot in nebraska but a medal of honor winner and a fellow vietnam wounded veteran who lost his leg in vietnam. so that's one of the cardinal sins against him. and he is opposed not by all of the mainstream lgbt groups but by some, by a few of them. the human rights campaign, chad griffin, very close to this white house, has said that he appreciates the fact that hagel has apologized for what he said 14 years ago about ambassador harman. >> so let's see, head of the uso. fought for the updated g.i. bill after 9/11. as andrea mentioned, wounded in war and would be the first soldier to become secretary of defense. but yet bill kristol, editor of the conservative "weekly standard," said this. "his backers can cite no significant legislation for

which hagel was responsible in his two terms in the senate. they can quote no memorable speeches that hagel delivered and can cite no profound passages from the book he authored. they can summarize no perceptive hagelian analysis of defense or foreign policy, and can appeal to no acts of management or leadership by the man they'd have as our next secretary of defense. a long and comprehensive account of american foreign and defense policy in the last 30 years would hardly note his existence." >> this is a battle between, you know, bill who obviously we know and like as well. he's from the neocon camp. lindsey's from the neocon camp. and chuck hagel is a return to traditional republican foreign policy, which is a constrained, realist bush 41, colin powell foreign policy, and that's very frightening to people like lindsey graham.

>> look, and all odds are he will be confirmed. it could be rough and tough. to me the big issue, because i assume he'll be confirmed, is can the white house organize, starting with the announcement today, which i'm told will be at 1:00 at the white house, through his courtesy calls to capitol hill, through his confirmation hearings, so he emerges as the secretary of defense who with actually work with republicans on capitol hill because he'll have to deal with the house as well, to do all the things he needs to do, wind down the war in afghanistan, cut the pentagon budget in a way that protects our security, deal with iran, deal with the middle east. he's going to have a big job to do. he's an impressive guy, as mika said, he's got tons of support, as andrea said, but he does have detractors who he's going to have to win over even if they don't vote for him. >> he has sharp elbows. when i was on the hill, i didn't like the guy. i didn't. a lot of people didn't like the guy. i understand why john mccain wouldn't like a republican senator that endorsed a democrat. i understand. he doesn't play well with others in the sandbox.

he certainly didn't when he was in the senate. i got to know him, though, through the years, and we got to know him. we like him. we respect him. he said some things about israel that caused me concerns. >> yeah. >> but he's going to be the president's secretary of defense. and i just wonder, what's better for democrats politically? if barack obama gets his republican secretary of defense or if republicans who, after deep sixing an african-american woman for secretary of state, now turn and savage one of their own? what's better for barack obama? because i personally think that republicans killing hagel's nomination is the best political thing that could ever happen to democrats. because it makes republicans just look obstructionist. >> well, i'll dial that back a couple points on the meter. the president losing a nomination fight would be bad

for him and there would be costs on both sides. i think you're right in the sense that if i think what all of us think is that he will get through. and if they can work this thing in such a way as to highlight his strengths, all of the things we've mentioned here, and make republicans look extreme in the process of trying to bloody him up, it could be a win-win for the president. he gets the guy he wants and makes republicans look bad in the process. i think you have to look at -- watch these guys, watch john mccain on this because all of the brothers in the senate who were vietnam veterans have stuck very close to each other in a bipartisan way for a long time. mccain, kerry, bob kerrey, chuck hagel. where does mccain come down on this? very much against susan rice. i find it hard to believe mccain's going to be against chuck hagel, given the kind of bonds that they have. >> chuck hagel was against john mccain in 2008. >> i'm not saying they weren't against each other on policy matters. we're talking about a confirmation here. >> didn't he endorse barack obama? >> i think he spoke favorably of

him. >> i don't think he endorsed him. >> unofficial surrogate. >> again, this is a confirmation hearing where the senate dgives deference to the president. mcconnell, around this "politico" story with quotes from mcconnell's farewell speech to hagel where he points out that hagel saved mcconnell's brother in vietnam, so we're not really sure. and singing his praises. >> that's only in the movie version. >> it's going to be hard for mcconnell to oppose him vocally here. >> that kind of sums everything up because if you watched yesterday's "meet the press," i mean, all this talk last week about the president's personality being difficult and unapproachable and isolated, excuse me. watch mitch mcconnell on "meet the press" because that cantankerous statement about the man who saved his brother's life was the one other thing that he said in his entire interview on "meet the press" after the fiscal cliff debacle. so i'm not sure how you negotiate with someone like that.

that summed it up. that sums up why the fiscal cliff ended up where it did. he's difficult. i'd stop looking at the president. >> so mitch mcconnell's brother's life was saved by chuck hagel? >> dragged out of an armored personnel carrier that exploded after hitting a land mine. hagel pulled mcconnell's brother out. >> perhaps, willie, he doesn't like his brother. >> it's not his favorite brother, let's be his favorite. >> you guys are looking at the wrong person with regard to personalities. >> that's a tough vote to win. >> and you're undecided -- i'm undecided. >> and mcconnell's quote, earn the respect of his colleagues and has risen to national prominence as a clear voice on foreign policy and national security. i don't know how you walk back those comments. >> i don't think you do. >> and yesterday he was lukewarm. >> yes. >> but, listen. willie, this goes back to what mika and i saw. there is john mccain in the

senate who everybody gives deference to when it comes to foreign policy. >> right. >> we've said it for years. republicans have wanted to be out of afghanistan for years. they've been uncomfortable with this neocon approach for years. and they quietly say we line up behind john mccain. i think john mccain is critical here, but there's no doubt that mitch mcconnell has to understand that crossing a war hero who saved his brother's life, who is in the mainstream far more so than lindsey graham, in the mainstream of u.s. foreign policy, you know, it's going to be a hard guy for mitch mcconnell to vote against. >> as john points out, mcconnell gushed over chuck hagel when he left the senate. on the floor of the senate, he gave a speech that went on and on about chuck hagel. let's be clear, a lot of this is about israel. you heard lindsey graham say it. john mccain has said it as well. they think chuck hagel will be too soft on iran. he suggested maybe that there should be negotiations with hamas, something that people

like lindsey graham reject out of hand. that's a big piece of all this. >> if they stop him, it will be on israel and iran. that's, i think, the only issue that potentially stops him. >> remember, he's the secretary of defense. the president's policies are what he has put in place to enact. so his positions matter a lot less than barack obama's positions. >> so on iran, we have a war hero who would think twice about war. we wouldn't want that. coming up, "the washington post's" david ignatius, nbc news political director, chuck todd. >> you know who else does that, too. >> yeah. >> it's interesting to me that colin powell, right -- >> yeah. >> -- who actually served in vietnam and saw a lot of his friends' faces blown off and chuck hagel who saw a lot of his friends die. fortunately, thank god, he saved mitch mcconnell's brother. that's great. but he saw a lot of buddies die. isn't it amazing that chuck hagel and colin powell who actually have been to war and seen the horrors of war firsthand in vietnam are a bit more reluctant to use force.

and he's being criticized as being outside the mainstream. maybe he is outside the mainstream of republican political thought for the past ten years. >> we're all so glad we're still in afghanistan. >> maybe perhaps we should go back to being the party that we once were. before iraq. >> right. >> the party of george h.w. bush, bent scowcroft, colin powell, condoleezza rice. would not be a bad idea. >> editor in chief of buzzfeed, ben smith, will join us. headlines with dr. emily senay. up next, mike allen with the top stories in the "politico playbook." first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good monday morning. >> miami. >> miami? miami looks beautiful. low 80s and partly cloudy. not bad at all. >> roll tide. >> it will be fun tonight. here's what we're dealing with forecastwise. last week was cold. it was snowing through much of the country. this week is your january thaw.

this was last week's pattern. and now this week, all the warm air is coming up from the south. and unfortunately, we will have some rain and thunderstorms in the southeast this week to deal with. maybe a few tornadoes. we'll watch you from texas to louisiana. but everyone else, we're really going to melt a lot of snow this week. temperatures very nice from d.c. to hartford. boston, albany, it will be warmer the end of this week. you've still got a little snow which keeps you a little chilly. look at washington, d.c. the forecast in d.c. is going to be gorgeous. we're talking 60 by wednesday. friday could be in the upper 50s. this lasts all the way through next weekend. so across the country, enjoy this. denver, kansas city, chicago, even minneapolis, up to freezing this time of year is great for you. if anyone's traveling, though, in the pacific northwest, you are the only travel trouble spot. some rain and snow depending on your elevation. that christmas tree's got to come down soon, doesn't it? you're watching "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks.

come back. we just got an e-mail. okay, heilmann, i'm holding you accountable on this. i'm holding you accountable on this one. okay. so there's a small -- small correction. have you been smoking, man? >> no. read this. i was reading -- >> no, no, don't dig yourself deeper in the hole. >> it's wrong. >> so willie, a correction here. >> it sounded a little strange to me. >> it did sound strange. it's a small world. >> chuck hagel saved the life of his own brother. he served side by side with his younger brother in vietnam. >> then mcconnell should vote against him. >> you got an e-mail clarification from mitch mcconnell's people. >> from somebody, somebody close to the process. >> somebody close to the process. >> not mcconnell's brother, but he saved his own brother. but saving your own brother ain't bad. >> let me get this straight. he hates him because he saved his own brother? what's he got against brothers? we'll be right back.

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time now at 29 past the hour to take a look at the "morning papers." from our parade of papers, "the dallas morning news." the white house is dismissing a peace plan outlined by syria's president, bashar assad, that would allow him to remain in power. in a rare public speech, assad outlined his plan which includes a cease-fire, national reconciliation, a new constitution. assad said he would not step down and blamed his country's struggles on the opposition, referring to them as terrorists and puppets of the west. "the san jose mercury news," despite being advised not to go to north korea by the u.s. state department, former new mexico governor bill richardson and google ceo eric schmidt have arrived in that country this morning. the reason for their trip not clear. speculation, though, has been they're seeking the release of korean-american kenneth bay, arrested on unspecified charges. richardson, a former u.n. ambassador, has traveled to north korea several times before. "the wall street journal."

french actor gerard depardieu received a hero's welcome as he begins this week as a russian citizen. depardieu expatriated in protest of france's high tax rates on the wealthy and has received d extensive coverage by the russian media. the actor arrived in central russia where he was offered a free apartment and a post as cultural minister. >> wow! >> even russian president vladimir putin joined in. >> i wouldn't hug him if i were you. >> discussed russian film over dinner on saturday at the president's residence in sochi. that's just weird. >> there's a statue of him already. pretty impressive. >> looking good, jerry. >> you don't want to get on a plane with him when he's drunk. >> no, a small plane. with us now -- >> you know what he does? >> yeah, i've read. it's not good. with us, chief white house correspondent for "politico," mike allen with a look at the

"playbook." >> can we first talk about the copy editor? >> mike, john heilemann wants to talk to you for a second. he wants to blame something that's entirely his fault on you. >> i'm not blaming anybody. i'm just saying you guys got to work on the copy editing in "politico." >> what are you talking about? explain it. go ahead. >> again, you read the sentence. in the 2008 farewell address to hagel, mcconnell praised hagel's heroism in vietnam knowing how hagel saved his brother. saved his brother. referring back to mcconnell, not to hagel. >> excuse me -- >> especially the word "own" would have solved all the problems there. just one little word. >> a quick grammar lesson, grammar refresher, a pronoun refers to the proper noun or the noun before. if you actually look at that sentence -- look at the word his and look at the noun or proper noun before that, it should be hagel. >> mike, do you got a white board there? >> i love this. so you were the guy that listened in english class.

>> we're so glad you're here. >> what's that rule, the pronoun what? >> it would refer to the noun or the proper noun before it. and if you take a look at the sentence -- >> wow, that's awesome. >> -- you'll see his brother, hagel, clear as a bell. >> what's a gerund? >> gerund is something -- it has an ing on the end of it. >> it ends with i-n-g. >> mike, can you conjugate the verb "brew"? >> i think a gerund would be highla heilmann digging himself deeper. >> i like that. >> he said you're not pinning this on me. just to recap. >> my bad. >> chuck hagel saved his own brother. >> his own brother. >> not mitch mcconnell's. >> "the wall street journal," mike -- >> decoratedecorated. >> -- wrote an article endorsing. what does he have to do? he's got a couple more fights in the near future.

how's he going to keep those republicans happy? >> he does and he's going to be a lot tougher. we're told he may even, as they say, shoot the hostage is the expression that one person used with us. that is has to be willing to go over a cliff, has to be willing to shut down the government, default on debt. in an interview with "the wall street journal" today, speaker boehner says that he thinks that the ultimate leverage with president obama is that republicans are very willing to let the automatic spending cuts, those sequester spending cuts that had a two-month extension in the fiscal cliff deal, republicans are willing to let those kick in. the white house had figured it hits defense. republicans won't want to. so now it looks like the white house more doesn't want those to kick in. we remember during the debate the president said it wouldn't happen. so we're going to see a john boehner who's less of a bridge between the republican conference and the white house and more of a spokesperson for

the republican conference, starting with a retreat he's doing with republicans. he's going to talk about how he can channel his conservatives more effectively with his rightward pressure that we're seeing. >> so mike, does he feel like because the perception inside his own caucus is that he gave too much on the fiscal cliff deal, that on the next one he's going to have to stand up more to the president, just politically anyway? >> that's a great way to put it. it's not just the perception. i think you read speaker boehner's words, he feels used. and the white house -- "the wall street journal" writer who sat with him, steve moore from the editorial page, said boehner looked battle weary. and he really took some shots at the president, talking about how he was overly ideological, quoting back how when he kept saying to the president, we have a spending problem, speaker boehner says that president obama said to him, you know, john, i'm tired of hearing you say that. whatever bond these two had over

the fact that they both had difficult constituencies seems to be broken. >> mike allen going to be back in our next hour to talk dangling participles. >> gerunds. >> alex has the definition of gerund. he's going to tell a waiting america that definition now. >> a gerund is a form that is derived from a verb but that functions as a noun. >> oh, wow! i like it when you say it like that, alex. >> i think we've got a spending problem. >> that's weird. up next -- >> and joe, mika, real quick, also just while i've been on the air, we've been told that along with senator hagel today, the president also will be nominating john brannen to head the cia. john brannen who worked at the cia for decades is very well known around the white house. right now he's the white house counterterrorism and homeland security adviser. so this is a never the comfort food pick by the president, somebody he's personally comfortable with, going over to succeed david petraeus.

>> looking forward to lindsey graham's press release, questioning his qualifications as an irish-american, whether he can stay sober on the job. roll tide, baby. >> most of the talk has been of rg3 and his knee injury in that game yesterday, but let's not overlook the performance by the other rookie, russell wilson, leading the seahawks. highlights in the playoff picture next.

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let's turn now to sports. it was a matchup of rookie quarterbacks in d.c. robert griffin iii as we told you, the skins hosting russell winson and the seahawks in the wild card round of the playoffs. redskins up a touchdown in the first quarter, looking for more. rg3 rolls out. tries to put on the brakes and find his receiver in the end zone. again, hard to watch. he can't plant on that leg, falls incomplete. griffin who suffered a knee injury earlier in the season reinjures it, gets up limping but stays in the game. two plays later, rg3 finds logan paulson. that gives the redskins a 14-0 lead there in the first quarter. looked like they were going to cruise. second td pass of the day. second quarter now. wilson gets his team back in the game, a four-yard touchdown

pass, wide-open michael robinson, 14-10 redskins. fourth quarter, seahawks down one. marshawn lynch. watch the block out front. russell wilson, number 3, springing lynch for the touchdown. >> love to see a quarterback block. >> don't you love that? >> love that. >> seahawks would take a seven-point lead after making a two-point conversion on the ensuing redskins' possession. we've seen it a million times by now. the snap bounces back to rg3, tries to fall on it. his leg just won't let him do it. seahawks recover. rg3 left the game. that time for good. rushed for just 21 yards, threw for 84. seahawks win, 24-14. over in the afc, ray lewis taking the field for his last home game as a raven. he's retiring after this season. they take on the colts in baltimore. fourth quarter, ravens up eight. joe flacco throws one up for anquan boldin. somehow comes down with that one, gets two feet down. ravens win, 24-9. so here are the matchups for the

divisional round. afc, ravens go to denver to take on the top-seeded broncos. and the texans who beat the bengals saturday go up to foxboro to take on the patriots. over in the nfc, great game, packers beat the vikings in the wild card round, so they go to the west coast to face the 49ers and the red-hot seahawks go south to play the top-seeded atlanta falcons. and really the big story today, college football crowns its national champion tonight, finally. number one notre dame meets second ranked alabama in the bcs championship game down in miami. if you're into such things, las vegas likes alabama by 9.5 points over the undefeated irish. should they win tonight, alabama would become the first team to win three national titles in four years since nebraska did it in the '90s. the tide would also extend the s.e.c. streak of consecutive bcs titles to seven. i ask you, joe scarborough, how are you feeling at 6:43 in the morning about the game? >> nervous. >> nervous? no.

>> i'll be nervous until, you know, scared to death that notre dame wins until after we win and then i'll be scared to death about next year. but listen, i think what i would do, if i did such things, but i don't, is i would -- you know, i'd say alabama's going to win, but take notre dame in the points. >> alabama by, like, six or four or something. >> i think five. >> i think this one could be -- i hope it's not. i think it could be a very close game. >> it's going to be fun either way. you've got arguably the two greatest programs in college football. >> it is going to be fun either way whether we win big or small. whether we cover or not will be great. whether we hit the over/under or the daily double or turkey trifecta. >> "mika's must-read opinion pages" are next.

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we have time for a couple of "must-reads." this one's from the "daily news" yesterday. the fiscal grand canyon by andrew samwick, a professor of economics at dartmouth. he was on the council of economic advisers in 2003. he says this, in part. "these are the facts about the budget. everyone knows them. yet the two parties have continued to pursue their dangerously parallel approaches to the debt: democrats pretending that minimal tax increases will spare the middle class -- that spare the middle class can save us, republicans generally pretending that spending cuts that exempt defense and tiptoe around medicare and social security are sufficient. with apologies for the mixed metaphor, going over the cliff would have helped bridge our new, perhaps permanent fiscal canyon between the government we all asked for and the government revenue we're generating to pay for it." he argues that at this point maybe it would have been better to go over the cliff. >> the solution to the fiction

was, in the words of pat buchanan, a big fat nothing burger. >> absolutely. >> nothing got accomplished rather than america got deeper in debt. >> and got a chance to see how stupid the process is with a bunch of clowns doing nothing. >> and again, nothing happened of any significance. >> exactly. >> and i've got to say, what strikes me is the president of the united states tells john boehner he's getting sick and tired of hearing that it's just a spending problem? well, it is. just if you look at the math, it's a spending problem. and i find, andrea mitchell, that now that democrats have their tax increases, they haven't moved on to start talking about entitlement reform. they're talking about more tax increases because they have no second act here. and as this op-ed says, tax increases aren't going to fix our problem. that tax increase paid for five days of government next year. >> and in fact, until the

democrats get their arms around the reality that they have to deal with entitlements and that this white house has to deal with entitlements, there's not going to be a conversation with the hill. and you're right about the fiscal cliff being a nothing burger, but the next one is going to be a lot more serious because defaulting on the debt is a completely different animal. >> so the question is how to get the two parties to seriously talk about spending. and you know, the president -- >> do you mind if i interrupt here for one second, mika? >> sure. >> you say to get the two parties to talk about it, let's look at what's happened. paul ryan put a budget out. what did we hear about paul ryan's budget after he put it out in the house of representatives? how savage it was, how cold it was, how cruel it was. what did democrats put out in the senate, which was their constitutional requirement? nothing. they haven't put out anything for years. they haven't proposed cuts. they keep saying generally the president's proposed cuts. nobody can tell you what those specific cuts are.

i've been very critical of republicans, and we've seen quite a few tense showdowns where republicans came on and said they aren't going to have to raise taxes. they are. we're in james madison's washington, and so taxes had to be raised. but democrats have to come forward with real cuts. and when is harry reid going to do that? when are the democrats in the senate -- how long's it been? how many thousands of days? 1,000? 1,100 days since the democrats have produced a budget in the senate? and why isn't the media talking about this? >> well, the president's going to have to put out a budget and give his state of the union address. >> okay. where's the democrats' budget in the senate, john heilemann, and why isn't the press talking about this? >> it's a mystery, joe. i don't know. >> i'm dead serious. republicans would never be allowed to be this reckless and irresponsible. and the media still is going to keep turning to republicans and

attacking them when democrats haven't put out a budget. they refuse to propose any real significant cuts. and they're just sitting there going, we're going to wait for the republicans. taxes have been raised. that card has been taken off the table. >> finally. >> what do democrats do now? >> i think democrats are going to have to, if they want to avert another crisis when we come up to the next cr on the debt ceiling, democrats will have to do that. i agree with you, i think it's irresponsible on reid's part. the president has been much more responsible. the president has met his constitutional responsibilities. he's put out a budget every year. he's the leader of the democratic party. he's done that. harry reid has not. >> is it true that the president's budgets get zero votes in the senate? >> yes, but that's not the president's fault. i mean, the president has laid out his spending and cutting priorities. he's tried to make deals with boehner where he's put forward significant changes to entitlement programs. the president couldn't get votes for those things. >> what does that say about democrats in the united states senate? they run the united states senate, andrea mitchell.

they refuse to put out a budget. and when the president, as john heilemann said, the leader of their own party, puts a budget out, he gets zero votes year after year after year. who are these senate democrats, and why does the mainstream media continue to give them a free ride? >> it's a very good question because they could just continue to point to john boehner and blame everything on the house. but they have taken no responsibility for any kind of fiscal solutions here. >> yeah. >> when are they going to do that, mika? >> when the president passed on taxes the last time, you all hammered him. he had to do what he had to do here. and these republicans need to look at why they got nothing. >> wait. wait, mika, wait. are you so partisan that you can't admit the obvious, that republicans passed a tax increase? >> you interrupted me on the point i was making, you went off

completely in a different direction and brought up a very good point. but back to today, if you look at what happened and you look at where we're going and why we're not talking about spending, it's because the president got rolled on taxes last time around. he got hammered for it. he had no choice but to make this happen the way he did. and quite frankly, boehner, cantor, mcconnell, the most difficult people on the face of the earth is what we've learned by watching the sausages being made. could anyone negotiate with them and get anything done? >> well, actually, yes. >> oh, really? >> joe biden could. >> yeah, he got what he wanted. and that's about it. >> taxes -- >> cornered them. >> -- taxes were increased in the house of representatives. the republican house passed tax increases. >> mm-hmm. they had to. >> when is the senate, led by democrats, going to be responsible, put out a budget and go to the spending cuts? >> i think we need to talk about spending. that was the question i was answering. >> when are democrats going to do their job? >> okay. >> what?

>> i was going to say something, but i was told we have to go. i'll say it during the break. >> mika, can you answer when democrats are going to do their job? >> i have two words for you, joe scarborough. i thought i'd never say it, roll tide. >> roll tide! there you go. that gets me off the subject. >> andrea, thank you. coming up, "forbes'" 30 under 30 list. the editor takes us through the young leaders that are changing the world. that's ahead. we'll be right back.

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♪ we're lucky, it's not every day you find a companion as loyal as a subaru. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. ♪ oh monday morning ♪ you gave me no warning quite frankly, chuck hagel is out of the mainstream of thinking, i believe, on most issues regarding foreign policy. i expect the president to nominate people different than i would think. i'm going to vote for senator

kerry. i don't agree with him a lot, but i think he's very much in the mainstream of thought. chuck hagel, if confirmed to be secretary of defense, would be the most antagonistic secretary of defense toward the nation of israel in our nation's history. he has long severed his ties with the republican party. this is an in-your-face nomination by the president to all of us who are supportive of israel. >> chuck hagel was a republican senator from nebraska, a decorated veteran of the vietnam war, a person who has a resume that includes service on the foreign relations committee as well as the intelligence committee. yes, he is a serious candidate, if the president chooses to name him. >> all right. you know -- >> you know, that's just so interesting that lindsey graham is saying that because what did mitch mcconnell say about chuck hagel? >> when hagel was retiring from the senate, mcconnell gave a very warm speech, and he said he, quote, he wered the respect of his colleagues and had risen

to national prominence as a clear voice on foreign policy and national security. >> so what was that, 1927? >> yeah, it's a long time ago because things change. >> graham said that he's out of the mainstream. >> 2008. >> wait, that's four years ago. >> possible deference to chuck hagel. >> could be. could be chuck hagel, as you said. >> mitch mcconnell on "meet the press" yesterday he said face some really tough questions. do republicans -- do republicans like each other? >> you know, the thing is -- >> i don't think they do. >> -- the thing is, i just wonder if the republicans really are going to fight this. >> do they like anyone? >> because this is a real -- the republicans have so many great opportunities, as we were talking about last hour, you know, focus on the senate democrats. focus on harry reid. >> focus on spending. >> focus on the fact that democrats are scared to death right now to actually make spending cuts that could save our republic. >> oh. >> instead of chasing rabbit trails and going after a guy who's running the atlantic council, one of the most

mainstream foreign policy organizations in washington, d.c., was former director of the uso, former u.s. senator, a man who the top republican in the senate says earned the respect as one of the clear voices of foreign policy, has shrapnel, by the way, that he still carries around. he is a war hero. would be the first enlisted man to ever run the defense department. let's see. i could just keep going. comes from the school of george h.w. bush on foreign policy and colin powell on foreign policy and brent scowcroft on foreign policy and certainly your father, dr. brzezinski, on foreign policy. mark halperin, he is so in the mainstream of washington u.s. foreign policy except, of course, unless you're a neoconservative. and i'm not knocking neocons. i love dan senor. i have one as a friend.

>> i have a brother. >> i expect bill kristol -- and mika's brother's a neocon. holy cow, the guy wants to invade, like, canada. i understand, i can respect that and them, but to say chuck hagel is outside of the mainstream of political thought when it comes to u.s. foreign policy, that's just not true. >> you take him on paper, his resume for this job is sterling. he's close to vice president biden. that's something that no one could say was anything but a big positive. but i will tell you, you look at the sunday shows yesterday, and in general, this debate over the last two weeks, the dog that is not barking is vocal support from senate democrats. there's a reason -- or several reasons -- why senate democrats are not out there defending chuck hagel as vociferously as republicans are attacking him, and that is the one danger area here. >> they'll get behind the president. >> we'll see. >> they'll get behind the president. >> we'll see. >> the fact is, squjohn, anothe reason why he is treated with

skepticism is because republicans that want to use our troops to further political goals across the globe don't trust him. and democrats that want to use our troops in peacekeeping missions all too often don't think that he's going to be willing to pull the trigger. because like colin powell, he has seen the horrors of war up close. and he is skeptical. god bless him for that. >> well, i think that's true. but i really do think, beyond everything, it's the israel question here that's driving most of this. it's nkneneoconservatives in th republican party and some democrats who are very faithful to israel, have some questions about things that he has said in the past. he's used some language that sets off alarm bells for big supporters of israel. >> he has. causes me concern, too, but he's the president's man. >> i agree. mark's point, taken as a bad sign when chuck schumer did not come out and defend him and didn't even say he would vote for him when he was asked about it in december.

i find it hard to believe that in the end that democrats are not going to -- are going to vote against hagel. and in the end they're not going to come around and support him. you know, this question that was posed -- you posed, joe, and that also max cleland posed over the weekend, former democratic senator from georgia, war hero, amputee, you know, came out and said who's going to stand up in front of chuck hagel with his two purple hearts and his shrapnel still in his chest who is a former -- a member of the foreign relations committee, longtime republican, who's going to stand up and look him in the eye -- not on the sunday shows. >> former head of the uso. >> who's going to look this guy in the eye and vote against him in the republican party? >> the people who opposed his nomination on capitol hill, bill kristol and others, are very sophisticated about how modern confirmation politics work. they have a plan to beat him for confirmation which will, at a minimum, inflict a lot of damage on chuck hagel and on the president. i think he'll be confirmed, but

the white house is going to have to be equally sophisticated about how to do this. >> i think, mika, it was shameful what democrats did to john tower when they pushed him over the cliff when he was the president's choice for sec def. and i recommend that the white house -- go research what republicans said. at the time john tower was treated so shamefully for political purposes. which by the way, democrats, guess what you did. you gave dick cheney. good on you. so go back and look at that. and i wonder if republicans are willing to do the same. >> why don't they just look at susan rice and really, do they want to do this again? joining us from washington, columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. david, a great day to have you on, especially pertaining to this topic. why don't you chime in. >> well, i think it's interesting to look at what the president thinks he's going to get from chuck hagel. not only at the opposition to

chuck hagel, why is he the person who's being picked despite this obvious opposition? several reasons. first, the president is personally close to him and comfortable with him. they traveled together way back when barack obama was a young senator. they hit it off. i think obama deferred to him as the military veteran, as the man who had seen war. they just got along well. second, chuck hagel, for all the reasons that the neoconservatives are against him, namely that he is skeptical of simply accepting israeli policy views, especially skeptical of the idea of going to war against iran is the president -- the president's man now in the lion's mouth, there's every possibility the u.s. will be heading toward a military confrontation with iran. and if hagel ended up backing it, because it will be the president's decision, hagel would be his spokesman, that's powerful. that says to people who, like

hagel, who maybe skeptical of some policies, this is essential. this is in the u.s. national interest. we're supporting israel, but we're doing so because of a wider strategy against iran. and then finally, his biggest task, really, is successfully getting u.s. troops out of afghanistan. and senator hagel, like joe scarborough, like a lot of people, really think this mission doesn't make sense and wants the troops home yesterday, if it were possible. so the president thinks that hagel will give him cover with republicans, with the right, with the military in what i think will be a more rapid troop drawdown than some might expect. >> hey, david, it's willie. as we've been talking about at the core of a lot of this criticism of chuck hagel is the question of israel. there's speculation about what he would do if he came in. what are really his views, not just on israel, but on negotiations with hamas, about how to handle iran? what's the truth if you cut through the spin from both sides about where he stands on israel? >> here's my short summation.

he, like almost any member of congress i can think of, has been a strong supporter of the u.s. military relationship with israel. he's voted time and again to support various authorizations and resolutions. so there's a deep record there of support for a key ally. and so i think in that sense, the israelis should feel reassured. he is within that group of americans who strongly support israel someone on the more skeptical side. one of the things that's gotten him into trouble is expressing resentment that people come up to capitol hill, you know, bearing letters from pro-israel lobbying groups, just expecting senators to sign them. he's been somebody who's said no. i'm not going to automatically sign off on policy. i want to make it myself. and i think that is a lot of senators who feel that they need to be more active in this policy sometimes than they have been. is he an advocate for that. >> so let me ask you, and i just

want to confirm. so you're telling me that chuck hagel, if you look at his record, he actually has a record of strong support for israel? >> if you look at all the votes, all of the things he's done as a senator, you will find a record of strong support for israel's security. >> that's interesting. let me ask you the question that we've been knocking around. lindsey graham claims that chuck hagel is out of the mainstream of u.s. foreign policy when, in fact, as andrea mitchell -- >> in-your-face pick. >> -- as andrea mitchell reported, most of the establishment support chuck hagel. comment on lindsey's statement this weekend. >> i don't know why senator graham's been out on the wing on a number of foreign policy issues recently. he was leading the attack on susan rice before he was leading the attack on senator hagel.

whether he is fundamentally concerned about the course of obama's foreign policy or doesn't like these two nominees, i don't know. >> but you say lindsey is out on the wing. certainly nobody in washington, outside of lindsey graham and john mccain and a small group of neocons, believe that chuck hagel is out of the mainstream on u.s. foreign policy, do they? >> joe, i think when people look carefully at this record, after the charges were initially made and looked at the many years in which he -- senator hagel had voted support for israel, they realized that the charge that had been made by some, that his views were in some way anti-semit anti-semitic, reflected some fundamental bias against israel were just wrong. and i think there was a general pulling back from that. there are still questions of policy, there's no question that he's a more skeptical person about some israeli military ambitions in the region than

some others. it is true that he's been more open, for example, to an opening by the united states to hamas than some israelis would feel comfortable with. i don't mean to minimize the way -- he is a voice, you could say, on the left, a more critical, skeptical voice, but that's from a bedrock of very strong support. >> john heilemann. >> hey, david. you're a great student of this administration's foreign policy and its foreign policy personnel choices. you just raised susan rice. i have a question for you about that. relative to this. the president, on two successive potential foreign policy national security appointments has faced opposition from certain corners of the republican party. on susan rice, people thought that she was his real choice, that that's who he wanted with his heart, and yet he folded his hand on her. on this one, on chuck hagel, he looks like he's ready to fight. so what conclusions do you draw from that? is it possible that people misread the president, that, nft, he really wasn't as

committed to susan rice as some people thought he was? >> no, i think he wanted susan rice. susan herself said, look, i'm going to be so beaten up by the end of this, i'm not going to be as effective as i should be. people should look at the team -- and there's one more name i want to which will be sur fa saysing today -- and they will see a team that obama personally feels comfortable with. that wasn't always true in the first term, gates, clinton, those were strong personalities, but they were independent. these are people who really will, because obama has named them, stood by them, owed loyalty to them. the third name to mention is john brennan. john brennan is going to be nominated to head the cia probably today. brennan is very close to the president. i'm told that if there's one person he relies on in the most secret inner debates, it's john brennan who's been his chief counterterrorism and intelligence adviser. john brennan is going to go over to run the cia. in the three branches, he'll have people who were his people. you couldn't say that about gates.

he couldn't say that about secretary clinton. and now have that team. and i think that's, again, don't think entirely about the fight ahead. think about what he's trying to accomplish with this group. why he wants them. >> that is the question.brennan goes as planned. what would that mean for the direction of u.s. foreign policy and the president's foreign policy doctrine, and how would it differ from the first four years? >> what that tells you, i think, mika, is this president is serious about completing this process of withdrawal of u.s. troops. kerry and hagel have both spoken very forcefully about ending the combat role in afghanistan. it reinforces that. john brennan has spoken about two things. first, he is known as the person who ran the drone wars. he has signed off on each of these hits and stayed up all night managing this policy. but he's somebody who is said to believe that it's time to shift

the balance at the cia back toward more traditional intelligence operations and away from counterintelligence paramilitary operations. so that's something that's ahead. final thing to say it that john kerry has been an advocate around washington for outreach, for the kind of quiet diplomacy, even secret diplomacy, that you saw with henry kissinger, with your dad, zbigniew brzezinski, traveling around, trying to set up deals that would foster u.s. security interests. i think we'll see more of that with this group. again, that's part of the design. >> david ignatius, great to have you on the show. thank you very much. >> great to be here. thanks. coming up next, editor in chief of buzzfeed, ben smith is here. also chuck todd joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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we have resolved the revenue issue, and the question is, what are we going to do about spending? i wish the president would lead us in this discussion rather than putting himself in a position of having to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to the table to discuss the single biggest issue confronting our future. you know, until we adjust the entitlements so that they meet the demographics of our country, we can't ever solve this problem. the time to solve it is now. >> do you, then, agree with the republican leader in the senate, mr. mcconnell, who says we're done now with the taxing side of it? now we have to concentrate on spending? is that done now? >> no, no. >> does the revenue side of it taken care of yet? >> no, it is not. one thing i'm not talking about is bringing in more at the expense of the middle class, at the expense of the middle class. that is not something -- and that was what we were fighting all along in this because to the

extent that you diminished the tax cut -- the tax change at the high end, you would have to claw down into the middle class to get more revenue. >> are you, then, saying to the upper classes, get ready, you're going to have to pay some more? this is not the end of it? >> well, i'm saying that's not off the table. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 22 past the hour. joining us now from washington, d.c., nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. and here on set, editor in chief of buzzfeed.com, ben smith. >> hi. >> you know what not to say on the show, right? >> i've got it done, cycling through my head. >> no, let's not review it. chuck todd, serious first question. should mike shanahan be fired today, or should they let him at least clean out his desk? >> ouch. ouch. you think it's that bad? >> oh, my god. if it were the first time that he were reckless with a franchise player, that would be

one thing. this happened a couple weeks ago. he lied about dr. james andrews giving rg3 a pass to go back on the field. >> if it's proven that he's lying, i think you're right. you can't mess with the franchise. i mean, this is -- but boy, that is horrible -- for a franchise that's been nothing but unstable since danny schneider took it over to then when you're right, looking like you might actually have a period of stability, an actual quarterback that works and a coach that seems to have figured it out, to rock the boat again is a problem. >> well, then danny schneider needs to sit down and talk to shanahan and say hey, cowboy, don't gamble with this franchise's future. it's just unbelievably reckless. >> well, what they should have done is kyle shanahan should have been handing the ball, saying, hand the ball off to alfred morris this way. it should have been morris left, morris right, morris up the middle. >> so do you take notre dame in the points tonight? >> no, i'm not buying into the

hype. i had a feeling this was going to happen. right at the end coming up to the game, all of the secret notre dame lovers were going to come out and say hey, maybe they have a chance. but you made a great point the other day, joe. if notre dame had a quality quarterback that could throw the ball down the field, then alabama would be in trouble. i'm not convinced that goldson's that guy. >> so let's talk now about less significant matters. >> yes, please. >> chuck hagel. why did the president decide to pick a guy that democrats aren't excited about, republicans aren't excited about, and very few people that have to confirm the guy are excited about him? >> he's motivated by a couple things. the biggest one, i think, is he likes the idea of a man who wore the uniform, who will not be intimidated by the generals. this is not to say that bob gates ever was intimidated by the generals or leon panetta, but there is this different nature, when you have a secretary of defense that had worn the uniform, that has seen

combat, who won't feel -- may not be as bullied or feel like they're going to be as bullied by the generals, that there's this, number one, there's mutual respect in a way that isn't always there with some secretaries of defense. and i think that the president also likes the idea that at a time when the budget debates are going to be -- i mean, the job of the pentagon, for the next four years, is going to be navigating these budget fights that we're going to be having, dominating the next few months, having a republican shrink the defense department might be a lot easier than having somebody else do it. so that is what motivates the president. >> and ben, i don't think it hurts, and i would think probably the whole bipartisan nature of this nomination is a little bit of what washington ne needs right now. >> i think under the kind of old rules of nomination politics, there's great logic hagel, a former military man.

i think in reality, you're facing this incredibly intense republican opposition. there are no republican senators out there saying that they love chuck hagel, they worked with chuck hagel, they'd like to support him. so it's not clear that there's really anything other than being able to say the word bipartisan. you get out of that because this very partisan modern media fight is gearing up around him. >> i don't know what they love. >> there's actually bipartisan resentment of chuck hagel. >> yeah. >> there's bipartisanship, all right. in speaking out. >> i think there is bipartisan resentment in the senate for people that worked with him because he didn't -- he wasn't clannish. he didn't go to one clan or the other. he was an independent guy. he ruffled feathers on both sides, mark halperin. so now both sides have no reason to support him. >> i think it's the inside game of hagel's courtesy calls. if someone goes up, a controversial nominee who has good courtesy calls defuses a lot of stuff in these private meetings with these senators. he'll be meeting with a former

colleagues. if he can come out of those softening the rhetoric of the opposition, i think he'll get through quite easily. >> he needs to go up humble. as i said, chuck hagel, we love him. we know him. >> a nice guy. >> the foreign policy community knows him and loves him. he is -- he's straight in the mainstream of u.s. foreign policy. but when he was on the hill, he had really sharp elbows. i didn't like him when he was on the hill. i like him now. now that i got to know him outside -- but he didn't -- he did not play well in that sandbox. >> i think he has the talents you're talking about. let's look at this resentment, heilmann and then take it to ben. we have to pull a sound bite from lindsey graham accusing him of not being mainstream to try and sum up this resentment. tell me what this resentment is. who is it? by whom? what's the problem? list them for me. >> will you please stop interrupting him? >> i want to hear the names. >> and just let him talk. >> graham, maybe mcconnell, maybe. >> the guy who screwed up

earlier this morning. that was horrible. >> to me it comes down to two words. >> let mihim talk. this makes me sad. >> he gave appear interview in 2006 in which he used the words "jewish lobby." those are like a flag in front of a bull for senators who support israel. we can debate whether it's okay to say those words or not, but again, and ben knows about this who's covered this stuff forever. >> and he's not answering my question. >> but this is the core -- this is the core of the problem for him. >> who has a problem besides lindsey graham and john cornyn? i'd like to know. >> what's interesting is where is chuck schumer on this, for instance? he has not come out. there's a lot of democrats who are very pro-israel and his constituents really dislike the idea -- this hints as a conspiracy, that there's this jewish lobby behind things. i think you'll see hagel come out and absolutely disavow that, pledge his love and support for america's jewish community. had he a bad relationship, it looks like, with the jewish

community in nebraska which is out in an op-ed this morning which accuses him of anti-semitism. that's a pretty strong allegation. >> is there a jewish community in nebraska? >> there is. i buried the lead. >> hagel's supporters have put together a list of prominent american jews who support him including a rabbi from nebraska. >> also bush's former ambassador to israel. mika, to answer your question -- >> thank you. yes. >> -- this is about iraq, pure and simple. this is about iraq, this is not about israel. this is about hagel flipping on iraq in '06 and '07 and '08 and becoming the republican face of opposition to bush in iraq and the neoconservatives and iraq. you were asking, what -- and when i was talking to a bunch of republicans on the hill, i said, you know, i said, are you guys really going to not, at the end of the day, support a former colleague? and they're, like, he left a lot of enemies.

they weren't upset with him on flipping on iraq. they were upset that he -- they thought he threw it in their face too much, if you will. whatever you want to come up with. >> we still only have two names. >> that is the resentment. >> hold on, mika. let's be really clear about it. most republicans are going to defer to john mccain. if john mccain, a former war hero -- >> is he against hagel? >> -- we'll see. >> oh. no, i'm serious. >> if john mccain comes out strongly against hagel -- and i think we have to assume right now if lindsey graham is out saying that, lindsey usually parrots what john mccain usually tells him to say. so if john mccain's out there saying that -- >> i guess lindsey's not coming on the show this week. >> i love lindsey, he's a good friend, but i'm sorry for telling the truth. that's what lindsey's done for years now since 2008. there are people that oppose him. >> there's the list. >> i think john mccain's critical. and chuck todd, it's equally critical that chuck hagel goes

up to the hill, hat in hand, and admits that he ruffled feathers there, that he could have been more diplomatic, and that he wasn't as respectful to these guys that have been there for a very long time. >> but look, hagel -- hagel -- this is not going to be an easy fight. mark halperin's absolutely right, these courtesy calls are going to be everything. hagel ought to make the argument that hey, ruffling feathers, though there's nothing wrong with having that at the pentagon, because we're going to be in the middle of some tough fights and telling whether it's the army, telling the navy that hey, you're not going to get what you want when it comes to how many troops we're going to be funding over the next few years, things like that that, that that could be an asset. but the second thing he's going to have to work on goes to what ben smith just alluded to, and that is where chuck schumer is on this. look, i know of a soft count of ten no votes on the democratic side. you know, forget -- we know republicans look like they're going to be fairly united in opposition to hagel, at least at

the beginning. well, if you've got ten no votes, then you don't have the vote. hagel's most important meetings are not going to be with his republican colleagues, they are going to be with -- they're going to be with chuck schumer, frank lautenberg, bob menendez, a lot of the northeast lawmakers who will be nervous when they've got donors, jewish donors upset about comments. >> the other irony is the only reason he's being considered is because he ruffled feathers on iraq. that's why obama is president. this whole thing does revolve around iraq, but there's no way he would be considered without republicans being furious about iraq. there's no other path. >> the other issue is iran, though. people are worried -- some of the people who oppose him say we need a defense secretary who can make a very strong, credible threat to use force against iran if they don't stand down on their nuclear program. and their concern is, based on his past statements, that he will not be the rhetorical force

you need in that job. >> the president's going to make his decision on iran regardless of what. >> i think chuck hagel's going to do it for him. >> chuck hagel's not going to do it for him. by the way, you've got john kerry who is much more interventionist. >> it's an incredible theme. >> look, the president has incredible competence in his own views on foreign policy. these people are, as david ignatius pointed out, he's putting people around him who he's very comfortable with. the president's going to call the shots on foreign policy and national security. these people serve in his pleasure. chuck hagel's views will ultimately not matter in the sense that they will not be dispositive. president iran and all these issues, the president will be setting the course. >> as you know, the president has a very tight circle especially on foreign policy. and anybody who believes that he's going to pick up the phone and call the pentagon and ask any cabinet member, hey, should i go into iran or not?

there are a lot of cabinet members that aren't really sure they're still cabinet members. the president doesn't talk to his cabinet. he's going to make that decision inside a tight, small group in the white house. >> you know, but there has been this sort of fake consensus for the last four years that everybody supports a hard line on iran. it's ill defined what has been. i think obama is shattering that in saying there is a real policy debate on iran. hagel is going to prompt a real policy debate. he's opposed sanctions in the past, opposed military action. i think obama is at least, whether he wants to or not, sending a signal that he's much less eager to have military action against iran than at least a lot of republicans in the senate. >> fascinating. >> that's going to show up in a web video. >> is it really? >> you did good. >> i appreciate that. >> you didn't say all those words -- >> trained not to? >> only buzzfeed could buzzfeed it out, though. >> i don't even know what that means, chuck. >> i don't quite either, but do

you it. >> chuck todd, final prediction, i alabama/notre dame. >> i'm sticking with what i stuck with a month ago, double digits, 'bama. >> roll tide. >> ben, thank you. >> thank you, ben. the young innovators and entrepreneurs who are all ready to become the stars of tomorrow. we're going to go through "forbes'" 30 under 30 list straight ahead. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] staples is the number-one

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39 past the hour. a live look at the white house as the subpoen comes up over washington, d.c. the white house is considering comprehensive plans to crack down on gun violence including measures that go far beyond a ban on assault weapons just over three weeks after the sandy hook shootings in newtown, connecticut, "the washington post" says vice president biden's task force is seriously looking at widespread measures. among them, establishing universal background checks for gun buyers and a national database to track all gun sales. the group is also exploring ways to strengthen mental health checks and creating harsher penalties for carrying guns near schools. in some cases, the potential measures could be implemented through executive action rather

than waiting for congressional approval. and yesterday several prominent republican senators were h hesitant to make stricter gun-control laws their top priority in 2013. >> i think what we need to do first is see what the vice president's group comes up with, what their recommendations are. there will be plenty of time to take a look at their recommendations once they come forward. what's going to dominate washington for the next three months here is going to be spending and debt. >> the reason we're discussing this is because of the tragedy in newtown. but within minutes, we saw politicians run out and try to exploit this tragedy, try to push their political agenda of gun control. i do not support their gun-control agenda for two reasons. number one, it's unconstitutional. the federal database is not nearly as good as it should be. that would be a common-sense improvement. but that's not what is being proposed. senator dianne feinstein's bill would create a national gun

registry. i thidon't think the federal government has any right of having a list of law-abiding citizens who choose to exercise the right to bear arms. >> let me ask you, mark halperin. you know ted cruz. >> i do. >> a smart, gifted guy? >> a smart ran. >> has he ever read the constitution? >> i'm certain he has. >> isn't he a lawyer? >> he is, an esteemed solicitor general of texas. >> a harvard graduate. >> you think he's read a supreme court case before? >> i'm certain he has. >> you think maybe he's read heller -- >> seminal. >> the definition of what's constitutional and unconstitutional, you think he's read that? >> probably. >> it's hard to know, but you would think he probably would, right? because if he had -- >> he would know? >> -- he would not say that background checks are unconstitutional. or any of the things that have been brought up are

unconstitutional because the supreme court clearly and unequivocally said that americans have a right to keep and bear arms, and that means keeping handguns in their home. that means being able to protect their families in their home. but they gave wide latitude to the government to regulate guns in every way that people determine. i just disagree with a lot of dianne feinstein's recommendations, but background checks, the banninging of military-style assault weapons, the banning of high magazine clips, it's not even a close call. i'm curious, why would he say something like that? >> if you look at where we are post-newtown on possible changes to a federal law, you see two things. one is a "washington post" story by phil rucker that makes it clear which is that the vice president's task force is looking at a very broad package of things that includes some things like a national gun registry that would be real hot buttons for a lot of people.

>> that's not going to pass. >> the other thing is yesterday, not just republicans, heidi heitkamp, the new senator from north dakota, was pretty strong, too, in saying she didn't agree with a lot of these things. so the people who want lots of new laws to regulate guns at the federal level are currently not winning the debate. >> when we narrow it down to background checks, tough background checks for all gun buyers, something like 85% of americans support that. when we talk about the banning of high-capacity magazines, for weapons, most americans support that. and when you get moving to these military-style assault weapons, you know, that's an issue that's split more down the middle. >> talk to the house judiciary committee. >> this is a key decision they have to make. big, broad package or narrow down on a couple of things they think are really winnable. >> we'll see. >> all right. we'll be right back with the "forbes'" 30 under 30 list. the magazine's editor, randall lane, joins us next. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. 47 past the hour. >> hey, mika? mika? >> i'm so old. >> i'm looking at this list, and i found there are three reasons i don't like these people. >> i hate them all. >> they're too young. >> they're too young. >> they're too skinny and they're too rich. other than that, i'm just like them. >> they're not all skinny. >> seriously, what are we doing here? >> most of them are pretty skinny. >> it's photo shopped. >> oh, okay. >> i thought it was -- anyhow. joining us now, the editor of "forbes" magazine, randall lane here with the magazine's "30 under 30" issue.

great. >> the jealousy issue. >> the jealousy issue. >> it really is. >> i just found out one of these guys created word press when he was 19. >> they're under 30? >> he's still only 28. he's got a decade of experience and he's not even 30. >> tell us about this list. who are these rich, skinny freaks of nature ? >> well, we divided them into 15 different fields. we had thousands of people apply. we had judges in each category. we divided them into 15 categories, had big-shot judges like mark cuban and another guy doing tech. we have 30 people in each of the categories. and what's really striking is that nowadays, i mean, there has been a sea change. technology has changed the game. it used to be until 10, 20 years ago, that for 5,000 years, experience, wisdom, those were the things that made you successful. you could not be as success were when you were young as when you were old because you acquired skills you could not get when you were younger. now because of technology, you

are actually better off because they see people think digitally. >> they think digitally. they grew up with it. >> it's natural whereas we have to fake it. >> you see a 2-year-old kid picking up an iphone. >> that's absolutely right. >> doing this, they can create word press at 19. it's an advantage. >> it's an advantage, and they're not burdened by what we're all burdened with by, which is knowledge of how things work. they just think about it. >> books, knowledge, yeah. >> rigor. >> rigor. hard work. >> okay. >> they can capitalize, too. also, they can raise money. >> they're all so pretty. >> people want to give mean to people now who are 19 years old. >> a lot of envy and jealousy coming out here. >> i am so old. >> technology, old. >> technology is the common. >> also, there's no fear of disruption. it's now been accepted. if you look at a continuum from bill gates and mark zuckerberg, there is an assumption now that

if i'm 23 years old, i can change the world and disrupt things and blow things up and become a billionaire when i'm 30. 20 years ago, you thought, i couldn't do that. now they go in with the confidence to do it, as well. >> mark? >> so, you have 30 under 30 and these people are highly ambitious. does anybody turn down the honor? >> oh, no. we get people, you know, lobbying us and sending us cakes and wine and all sorts of things in their category because they see they are judges, you know, high-level judges in each category. they say it is a big honor. >> tell us about some of the youngest. >> you have to look at, one guy i'm impressed with. he's 25 and his name is josh. he is in the health category. diagnosed with a very rare bone cancer called cardona. he discovered it while he was a freshman at duke. rather than just accept his fate because the average life expectancy is seven years.

he is right at that now. he is going to drop out of duke. they had the only research grant to study this and he dropped out and raised $200 million to cure his own disease. another generation said, oh, i'll try to live my life the best i can. he said, i'll try to solve my own disease. that is attitude neal the only difference and not only trying to accept life, but challenge it. >> the brooklyn net on this list. deron williams. >> he's listed at 6'3". i'm 6'1" if i'm standing dead straight. he's lying about two inches and he's also very smart. brooklyn is the hottest story in the nba this year. $1 billion bet in terms of the arena, in terms of revitalizing that area of brooklyn and he is the reason. he is the reason, in some ways,

that the nets, he was the one that committed to it. mark cuban judging one of the judges in the sports category. he turned down mark cuban's millions, even though he's from dallas, to say i'll try to put my money on brooklyn and try to lead it. very impressive guy. came to our office, very smart, but not very tall. >> do you have a favorite on this list? somebody to look for? >> besides, you have to look at our cover star, david karp. 26. his company only has revenues of $13 million, but one of the top ten web destinations. biggest than microsoft bing. he started it because he wanted something pretty. he didn't think the web worked right and started this blog tumblr and now has 18 million page views a month and just did it, again, because he saw something nobody else did. why can't we build a website that people can put pictures on and make it a pretty canvass.

he's all the richer for it. >> "forbes" 30 under 30 issue is now on newsstands and it's a great issue. >> thank you, we appreciate it. >> randall lane, thank you. coming up, dr. emily sanai will be here with her take on interesting new medical studies including being overweight may reduce the risk of early death. more "morning joe" when we return. at a dry cleaner, we replaced people with a machine. what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank. your money needs an ally.

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looking ahead tomorrow michael bloomberg, stanley mcchrystal will both be here and coming up next on "morning joe" chuck hagel expected to be n nominated as next secretary of defense. we'll discuss it all straight ahead on "morning joe." [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ [ indistinct shouting ] [ male announcer ] time and sales data. split-second stats. [ indistinct shouting ] ♪ it's so close to the options floor... [ indistinct shouting, bell dinging ] ...you'll bust your brain box. ♪ all on thinkorswim from td ameritrade. ♪

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>> and snap and it belongs to seattle. and robert griffin iii is down on the ground and can't get up. >> talked to robert and robert said to me, he said, coach, a difference between injured and being hurt. i guarantee i'm hurting right now. give me a chance to win this football game. i guarantee you i'm not injured. >> my job is inquarterback of this team. i took myself out of the game. that's just the way you have to play it and i don't feel like me being out there just to tackle the next question, i don't feel like me being out there hurt the team in any way. 5:00 on the west coast and time to wake up as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set we have mark halprin, and andrea mitchell in washington. >> really, here's the deal.

all right, we have dr. james andrews from my hometown. and he's on the sidelines and you have the franchise player and shanahan did this earlier in the year. the guy gets hurt and shanahan shoves him back on to the field and you have a rookie quarterback who, of course, is going to want to go in and play. that was just reckless, reckless, negligence. not with a guy in his final year, but a guy in his first year who's your franchise player. i'm telling you, man. shanahan is taking too many chances with this great player. and, i mean, i think that's almost a fireable offense. >> he was hurt. >> it was awful. it was really hard to watch. like watching a fighter who has one eye closed and he can't move his left arm and, of course, he wants to stay in the ring. he wants to show he has guts and

he has courage. somebody in the corner, the doctor has to step in and say he cannot be in the ring or, in this case, on the field. that same dr. james andrews came out over the weekend and said he didn't authorize griffin to go back in the game a few weeks ago. shanahan wouldn't let him look at griffin. he just looked at griffin and said, of course. >> just who people follow football, dr. james andrews is the best of the best. not a second. you have him on your sidelines because you have the best player. the greatest franchise player that the redskins have had. >> also just so short sighted. he runs around, anyway. he's going to get beat up. it can't go on like this. >> it's not like you are me or the second string quarterback for the redskins. they have a great second string quarterback. listen, shanahan, shanahan should be fired, man. i'm serious.

andrea, i see, i see you disagreeing. you do not. you do not risk your franchise a couple of times in a month the way shanahan has. >> look. we were 3-6. shanahan brought us to the point where we won seven in a row. it was far beyond what anyone had expected from this team. this team is rg3, but also alfred morris and a lot of people responsible for the success. yes, it is the quarterback. i'm not going to second guess mike shanahan. he earned it. >> why wouldn't you second guess him, andrea? you guys live on the same block? why would you not second guess -- the guy, rg3, your franchise, was beaten up, battered and bruised. my 9-year-old daughter could watch that game and say, he's really hurt. he shouldn't be playing.

>> it was terrible to watch. i'm not going to kid you. i'm there and i never heard 90,000 people go silent in that fashion. i've never experienced anything like that. >> so, another battle in washington, over chuck hagel. >> that's fantastic transition. today president obama is expected to nominate former republican senator chuck hagel of nebraska as the next defense secretary. hagel, a decorated vietnam veteran. his confirmation, however, is, can you believe this? shaping up to be a testy battle with the republicans. even though he is a republican. a number of republicans have suggested they will challenge their former colleague with tough questions on his foreign policy record. >> with regard to israel, for example, and iran and all the other positions that he's taken

over the years will be, you know, i think very much a matter of discussion during the coni r confirmation process. >> so, you're not predicting smooth sailing for chuck hagel? >> i think it will be a lot of tough questions of senator hagel, but he will be treated fairly by republicans in the senate. >> quite frankly, chuck hagel is out of the main stream of thinking, i believe, on most issues regarding foreign policy. i expect the president to nominate people different than i would think. i'm going to vote for senator kerry. i don't agree with him a lot, but i think he's very much in the main stream of thought. chuck hagel, if confirmed of secretary of defense is the most antagonistic secretary of defense in the state of israel in our nation's history. he has long severed his ties with the republican party. this is an in your face nomination by the president to all of us who are supportive of his real. >> lindsey graham is saying that chuck hagel is out of the main

stream. okay. >> this is being said, by the way, of a war hero. this is important. a war hero who still carries around shrapnel with him. this is a guy, we know him from many different things. this is a guy who runs the atlantic council, which is about as main stream an organization as you will get in foreign policy. and we've worked with him a great deal through the atlantic council. he is a realist. he is not from the lindsay gram school of foreign policy, but rather than the brint, the dr. brzezinski, the colin powell school of policy, the george h.w. bush school of foreign policy. so, if anybody out there wants to say that chuck hagel is outside the main stream of

foreign policy, i suggest they turn the mirror around on them. >> he is a main stream foreign policy expert who is supported by just about every retired military person i know and every diplomat. i have tom pickering. so, he has universal support. i have not found anyone in the diplomatic community and the established military community who does not support him. he has very close personal relationship with this president. foreign intelligence advisory board and traveled with the president along with jack reid in '08 when the president was running as a candidate when we all went overseas and did iraq, afghanistan, the middle east and europe trip. so, he's got all those credentials and he ran a business, he's from nebraska. at the same time, they're against him because he endorsed his former senate colleague bob kerry, a long shot in nebraska. but a medal of honor winner and

a fellow vietnam wounded veteran, who lost his leg in vietnam. that is one of the cardinal sins against him and he is opposed, not by all the main stream groups, but by some. by a few of them, but the human rights campaign chad griffin, very close to this white house, has said that he appreciates the fact that hagel has apologized for what he said 14 years ago. so, let's see, head of the uso, fought for the updated gi bill after 9/11. as andrea mentioned, wounded in war and would be the first soldier to become secretary of defense. but, yet, bill kristol, editor of the conservative weekly standard says this, his backers can cite no significant legislation for which hagel was responsible for in his two terms

in the senate and cite no profound passages from the book he authored. they can summarize no perceptive hagelian analysis of defense or foreign policy and no acts of management or leadership by the man they'd have as our next secretary of defense. a long and comprehensive account of american foreign and defense policy in the last 30 years would hardly note his existence. >> this is a battle between bill, who, obviously, we know and like, as well. he is from the neocon camp. lindsay is from the neocon camp and hagel is from a constrained, realist, bush 41, colin powell foreign policy. that is very frightening to people like lindsey graham. >> look, in all odds, he will be confirmed. it could be rough and it could be tough. to me the big issue, because i

assume he will be confirmed. can the white house organize starting with the announcement today which will be a 1:00 at the white house through his courtesy call to capitol hill and he emerges as a secretary of defense who can actually work with republicans on capitol hill because he'll have to deal with the house, as well, to doall the things he needs to do. wind down the war in afghanistan, cut the pentagon budget in a way that protects our security, deal with iran, deal with the middle east. he is going to have a big job to do. he is an impressive guy. he has tons of support, as andrea said. he has detractors who he will have to win over. >> john hilman has sharp elbows. when i was on the hill, i didn't like the guy. a lot of people didn't like the guy. i understand why john mccain wouldn't like a republican senator that endorsed a democrat. i understand he doesn't play well with others in the sand box. he certainly didn't when he was in the senate. i got to know him, though, through the years.

and we got to know him, we like him. we respect him. he said some things about israel that cause me concerns. but he's going to be the president's secretary of defense and i just wonder, what's better for democrats politically? if barack obama gets his republican secretary of defense or if republicans who after deep -- now turn and savidge one of their own. what is better for barack obama? because i personally think that republicans killing hagel's nomination is the best political thing that could ever happen to democrats. because it makes republicans just look obstructionist. >> i'll dial that back a couple points on the meter. you know, the president losing a nomination fight would be bad for him. and it there would be costs on both sides. but i think you're right in the sense that if i think what all

of us think, he will get through. if they can work this thing in such a way as to highlight his strengths, all things we mentioned here and make republicans look extreme in the process of trying to bloody him up, there is, it could be a win/win for the president. he gets the guy he wants and makes republicans look bad in the process. watch these guys, watch john mccain on this because all of the brothers in the senate who were vietnam veterans have stuck very close to each other in a bipartisan way for a long time. mccain, kerry, bob kerry. where does john mccain come down on this? very much against susan rice. i find it hard to believe that -- >> chuck hagel was against john mccain in 2008. >> i'm not saying they weren't against each other on policy matters. >> didn't he endorse barack obama? >> i think he spoke favorably. >> i don't think he endorsed him. but, again, this is a confirmation hearing where the

senate has to give deference to the president. you watch that. >> let's be clear, a lot of this is about israel. you heard lindsay gramm has said it. he suggested that maybe there should be negotiations with hamas. something that lindsey graham rejects out of hand. >> if they stop him on israel and iran. >> let's remember, he's the secretary of defense, he serves at the pleasure of the president. the president's policies is what he put in place and his positions matter a lot less than barack obama's positions. coming up next, some of the latest health headlines including with dr. emily senay. also ahead, which states are making the grade when it comes to effective education policies. former chancellor of d.c. public schools michelle rhee takes us inside her state-by-state assessment but first bill karins with a check on the forecast.

>> for some this is a happy forecast, for others who like the snow and cold, this isn't the week for you. this is a january thaw. we haven't had much of a winter. we were cold last week and this week completely different story. all the cold and cool air up in canada and mild, pacific air and warm air from the gulf of mexico streaming through the eastern half of the country. now, there will be some rainy spots. we'll talk about that in a second. look at these temperatures today. these are your highs today, mid-40s up through new york city. even chicago, near 40 degrees and all of the areas from kansas city, oklahoma city, dallas, right through the southeast well above average. now, we have rain, the worst weather in the country, by far, you're waking up to it from seattle and rainy, windy weather and rain around spokane and a couple more inches before it changes over to rain. we are warm and great east of the rockies and northwest is in trouble. the storm system that will cause problems will come up through

texas tuesday and wednesday. we could are strong storms and a few tornadoes possibly in around the houston and louisiana areas tuesday night into wednesday morning. we'll watch that. that is really the next thing of concern. but otherwise, feels a little bit like spring. do i dare say that in the beginning of january? you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin totally dedicated to your eyes, from the eye care experts at bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite has a unique formula not found in your multivitamin to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite.

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welcome back to "morning

joe." 20 past the hour. joining us now for pbs need to know, dr. emily senay. how are you? happy new year. >> happy new year. >> yes, it is a new year. we'll start with a couple different health headlines. interesting must-read yesterday. i'm sure, gentlemen, you saw it on soda pop. >> celebs and soda. >> just raking in tens of millions of dollars to sell poison to our children. that's nice of them. thank you, beyonce. >> tasty drinks. >> right, full of sugar. emily will tear those apart. but, first, something i brought to the table. new study here about -- these services like mdiv which is you pay more but you get access to your doctor that you can't get when you go the regular route. >> right. >> it's, obviously, for upper income people. but it's having an impact or not? >> well, it's interesting. a couple studies that have come out that has shown these

services patients pay extra to an individual doctor over and above for what they would pay for insurance. they hire the doctor to be their sort of -- >> doctor. >> exclusive doctor. it's an extra fee that people have to pay. these physicians usually associate with companies like this mdvip which helps them call their practice and bring it down to a smaller size so the physicians can spend more time with fewer patients. >> are doctors drawn to this? i mean, what is the benefit for them as opposed to going the regular route. the benefit for people who pay thesif thesifies, they call the doctor on their cell phone and they don't have to wait at all. get the health care they need and continue on with their day. obviously, incredibly convenient. what is the draw for the doctor? >> the draw for the doctors, better quality of life. many physicians say they get to provide better health care to individual patients. they don't have to do that

seven-minute rushed visit. they get to spend, you know, up to half an hour with every patient. they get to know their patients much better and manage their medical conditions much better and burn out, i think there was an article on a website that's read by physicians where i think the number one article read this past year was about physician burnout. a lot of physicians say this helps alleviate that burnout feeling. limiting the number of patients that they are managing. >> this is the thing that people refer to as concierge medicine. >> concierge implies very expensive. $10,000 a year. these smaller businesses that are now popping up. mdvip, actually owned by procter & gamble, is not that expensive. $1,500 to $1,800 for the patient to partner with these physicians. >> some statistics show the hospital admissions from the patient point of view, really much lower. >> that's true. we don't know if it's because the people who select to go to

these doctors are healthier anyway, but there is some indication that if you manage people in an ambulatory care setting, you keep them out of the hospital. that's very consistent with what a lot of experts think. we should be doing more of. in fact, the affordable care act is really banking on that very factor that we can actually manage people better outside of the hospital, prevent illnesses from progressing to the point where they need hospitalization. there is some evidence that this has benefit. whether or not we can model the entire health care system on these practices, i don't know. what happens to the people who get dumped from the practice when they can't afford to pay the $1,500, $1,800 fee. >> exactly. that's certainly an issue. let me get to two other studies and one headline. this study about fructose. there's evidence it may play a role in overeating. it's in everything, isn't it? >> it's in everything. high fructose corn syrup is in

everything. to avoid it is a big effort. you have to read labels and spend a lot of time trying to get it out of your diet if you want to eliminate it completely. this study looked at brain flow on patients, subjects who took just a drink of gluicose and fructose. when people drank the fructose it actually stimulated areas of the brain that make you hungrier. so -- >> it's addiction. i'm sorry, i have a book coming out in the spring. you're in it. full disclosure and it's called "obsessed." there are some foods that are literally addictive and causing our obesity crisis. do i sound crazy? >> no, you don't sound crazy. there's eclogical evidence -- there is growing evidence that there is something special about fructose. some of that evidence comes from looking at populations over

time. for example, when fructose became a big component of the american diet, as that increased in the american diet, the obesity epidemic sort of took off. if you look at those two things on a graph, it's pretty profound. having said that, that is not causality. that doesn't prove that fructose has caused the obesity epidemic. what is provocative about this brain flow study, it adds biological evidence to these ecological studies that suggest some sort of association. when you're eating fructose you're eating glucose, too. >> i think there are other things causing addictive behavior. brain reaction to these foods over time. if you ask people who are over 200, 250 pounds who are morbidly obese or a discipline problem or not. they get very upset because they don't. they have been destroyed by our

food environment. i think these studies will come together and show that we have a couple addictive things, just like cigarettes. which sounded crazy a long time ago that people would say junk food would be linked, parallel to the tobacco court rulings. but, you know what, we're going to get there. i'm sure of it. >> well, you know, be prepared to hear from the corn refiners association. >> soda pop industry, come at me, too. tell me you're not selling complete poison. some nutritional value in pepsi. something in orange soda adds value to our diets and our body. don't look at me. what's wrong with you? >> let's all go out after the show and have some twizlers and talk this through. >> these are the things we have been eating for decades and drinking for decades and then we have an obesity crisis and we can't make the link? >> it's very possible the science will take us there. we do know where the science is

for sure which is a diet on whole fresh fruits and vegetables primarily with small amounts of meat and plenty of fish and low-fat meats is the way to go. >> i'm totally not disagreeing. i'm just locking at your point, emily, this is us. so built in now to the whole american agra business structure. when you mention the corn refiners. this is not just the sugar and soda pop industry, it has been built around corn and what corn turns into it which is sugar and various forms of sugar. it's a big, systemic problem that you're talking about here. >> how it got there is a very interesting story and there's been a lot written about that and how, you know, corn surpluses resulted in the disorvery of high fructose corn syrup and how that came to be used in the american diet to such a profound degree. but you can't avoid it. >> looking forward to mika taking on all the farmers. >> i'll just start at soda pop

and i won't read this must-read. i'll just point out if you look at "new york times" mark bitman's piece about the stars making, beyonce makes $50 million selling pemsy. lebron james $16 million six-year deal with coca-cola. the agra business and different parts. this is part of now the money that people are making to feed our children and serve our children drinks that will ruin their bodies and their teeth. i'm sorry, it's not -- is there anything i'm missing here? >> no, no. if the science catches up to your vehement view on this, i think that is a good thing. i think we're getting close to that. again, plenty of evidence that a diet that is focused on whole fresh fruits and vegetables with limited amounts of red meat and healthy types of meat and fish is healthier. >> it's too bad america doesn't have that diet.

not even close. extra weight and mortality. this piece last week that joe now thinks he's going to live longer because he has a little potbelly. >> well, what's interesting about this study. if you just take bmi out as your measure of health, that's probably not a perfect yard stick for judging whether or not someone is healthy. that's sort of what these studies did. if someone is overweight, not obese, let's leave those out because this study clearly showed an increase mortality. increased mortality. different category than being overweight. if you're overweight and you have high blood pressure and glucose problems, well, that's different than just being a little bit overweight. you really have to look at the totality of health measuresen someone. you can't single out bmi. it's very important and very useful. i think you have to parse the

data a little bit better to really determine whether or not this is a good study at the end of the day. people who are very thin may have chronic diseases, may have cancer. so, that may have created a bias in the study. joe should have his blood pleasure checked and he should know where he stands in terms of his cholesterol, his -- where is he? >> i'm telling him. he's getting his -- oh -- >> too excited about that. >> emily, i have known you for a long time. do you think i'm shrill? >> i'm so glad you're taking stuff up, mika. it needs somebody to champion it on the other side who feels passionately about this. >> we'll be right back with michelle rhee. ♪

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right now with us the student and founder of children first michelle rhee. out with this year's state policy report card which evaluates the education laws in each 50 states. also the uauthor of "radical." michelle, you graded the schools. who got the highest grades in the states? what states got the highest

grades, which states got the lowest grades? >> well, this is a report card that looks at the policies and laws in each state that govern how schools are able to function. and we very, very strongly believe that students first there is no shortage of great educators who are out there. we know that every kid can learn regardless of what obstacles they face, if they're in a good school environment. the bottom line is that they're forced to operate in this incredibly bureaucratic environment that is driven by these antiquated laws and policies. what we decided to do is look at these policies across all 50 states and the district of columbia and rate them based on whether or not they're students center. >> you're looking at the states that turn their back on these antiquated policies that have been crippling public education for years now. what states did the best? >> so, if you look at states like louisiana, florida, indiana that have had tremendous movement towards education reform over the last two to three years, you can see that

those rates, those states are rating most highly. >> at the top, louisiana is a fascinating story. even democrats saw katrina as an opportunity to go in and clean up a dysfunctional school system. that's exactly what's happened, right? >> that's absolutely right. after katrina, a number of different policies were put in place to really give the community the opportunity to reinvent their schools and reenvision what was possible. >> and they have. >> they absolutely have. >> talk about radical. the radical transformation in new orleans. >> that's right. parents now have incredible choices in new orleans amongst high quality options for their kids and this is all families, not just certain families in certain neighborhoods. now the state has gone even a step further. last year governor jindal and the legislature put in place a number of really aggressive strategies to make sure that every kid has a highly effective teacher. >> so, in new orleans you don't have to be rich to be able to choose the highest performing school to choose to send your

child? >> that is one of our policy pillars. that every family should have, should be empowered to send their child to a high-performing school and every child should have high quality school options. >> you don't have to be rich to have a good education for your kids. >> so, the president has been a champion of reform that you see from you, jeb bush and others. what would you like to see him do now in this term? what would you like to see him talk about in the state of the union as a role for the federal government and some of these reforms? >> i think one of the things that is most important to talk about right now is on the fiscal side of things. every state knows that there is not a money tree that states and schools are not going to be getting more money. so, the question is how do we take the resources and the taxpay taxpayer dollars that we have and use them more wisely. one thing we would like to see happen is a tying of the federal funds that are given out through title one and title two programs to innovation, just like he has

done through race to the top. >> michelle, i'm looking at your report cards here in the state. you are a tough grader. joe pointed out louisiana is at the top with a b minus. 90% of the states, i believe, are in less than a c grade. so, what do you need to get above a b minus? what has to happen for a state to get up in the a range? >> three areas we focus on. first, making sure every teacher has a highly effective teacher in their classroom. the second is giving parents, empowering parents with choices in their quality education for their child. and the third is governing well and using taxpayer dollars effectively. there are 24 different policies in each of these three areas. so, we really do through this report card provide a road map for legislatures across the country that want to create the right environment for their schools and educators to operate in. to say, okay, if we want to improve and start moving in the right direction. here are the policies that we need to undertake.

common sense things. how do we change the pension system so that teachers have more portable pensions. and they have more choices in their pension system. we pick things like, you know, making sure that in a time of layoffs, teachers are laid off by quality, instead of by straight seniority. these are really common sense policies that any person on the street can understand. >> what is so fascinating, d.c., your old stomping grounds and rhode island. both in the top five. you expect those states, certainly would expect rhode island to be the top in reform. i will ask you about that in a second. look at these f grades. north dakota, west virginia, nebraska, montana, wyoming. these are all plain states. >> plain states not doing that well. >> these are all red states. why are they doing so poorly? >> well, a lot of the states that are at the bottom of the report card are states that are big into local control. let's give it, each local

jurisdiction control. we think that there has to be a healthy mix between the state saying, here's what is necessary to ensure that every child in our state has a high-quality education and seeking a balance between that -- >> so, are these red states, north dakota, west virginia, nebraska, montana, wyoming, are they anti-reform? antieducation reform for the most part? >> i think less that they're anti-reform and so much, more that they are sort of so focused on giving the local school boards control. what we know after decades of local school board control is that local school boards often make early, silly decisions. >> i'll say dumb, you don't have to. finally a, i'm fascinated by rhode island. rhode island actually, highest unemployed in america has been seen, again, very reactionary, clinging to old policies. >> union dominated. >> union dominated. yet, rhode island, i think they have a treasurer that made some traumatic cuts in long-term

pensions. and you've got them in the top five on education reform. what is going on there? >> rhode island made some incredibly aggressive changes on their policies. a state superintendent there. deborah who has been very, very aggressive on reform, as well. >> isn't she a democrat? >> she is. she actually came from d.c. a number of things that are going right in that state that we think, really, are going to change the trajectory of rhode island. >> which back when "radical" comes out. >> absolutely will. >> thank you so much, michelle rhee. today's top business headlines and cnbc brian sullivan. plus, a quiz. >> i like a quiz. >> a quiz for you regarding the democrats' last budget. we'll return. ♪

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cnbc brian sullivan. brian, you know, mark halprin called me early this morning and he was very concerned. very concerned because he said, joe, insurance rates are going up despite the fact that the president's health care plan was passed. where does this lead us in the future? i said, mark, we'll have to wait until 8:45 to talk to brian sullivan to get the answers. you're here now. please, please, put my friend mark halprin's mind at ease. >> i will do my best, guys. really, two types of states. states where state regulators have the ability to push back on increases where they view as excessive and states like

california. in fact, that is one of your lead stories today and it is sure to make everybody angry because this is the -- >> look at that. >> look at these charts, guys. these are proposed rate increases in the state of california. you've got anthem, you've got bluecross and a number of the health insurers that are seeking 20 plus percent rate increases, mostly on independent businesses. so, if it was scarborough or halprin inc. and you have 40 employees, 50 employees, they are looking to jack those rates up versus 4% increases. >> why are those numbers going up? because i know the president of the united states told us that if we guaranteed 31 million new people getting health insurance, he said that costs would actually go down and i sat there going, i may have just gone to the university of alabama and i'm not good at math, but, again, i don't have to be good at math because every year we only have to count to number one.

i'm confused by these numbers because how do you add 331 million people to the rolls and making -- >> the math just doesn't add up, brian. >> i'm just confused, brian. could it be that there is no such thing as a free lunch? >> i'm confused, as well. because the rate of health care cost increase is slowing. health care costs are still going up, but the rate of increase is slowing down, even in california. right. so, the insurance companies aren't coming out and leading the charges and saying why. you could make a couple of assumptions. maybe they feel like they're going to lose money on certain percentages of the population. maybe they feel the people they're employing or having policies under here will be sicker than the other percentage of population. >> do you think it is also -- >> it doesn't make sense, but listed in the article as one of the reasons. to me, i'm like, that doesn't

sound right. these companies are not charities and there's certainly going to be a call for more states to have power and in california, health insurance regulator that is quoted in the article says, listen, this is what happens when we don't have the power to push back. new york can do that. new york can say, no, a 20% jump, that's ridiculous. let's negotiate and give you x percent. california and other states, california the biggest state, doesn't have the ability to do that, guys. those are unsustainable rate -- those will put small businesses out of business. >> we'll put them out of business. so many small businesses that are going to be affected by obama care. by the way, the president said he likes it being called obama care. save your tweets for somebody, but small businesses put out of business by obama care. fundamentally altered and a lot of people who will keep some of their best workers below 30 hours because they can't afford, they can't afford this and it's a real problem and i've heard top ceos saying they're probably

going to only carry health insurance for the next four, five years. >> i remember a ceo that we had breakfast with recently who said it is no problem recently. i don't know what top ceos you're talking about. brian sullivan, thank you. >> good luck tonight, joe. >> thank you. what do you think? >> i think my head, alabama takes it. part i won't tell you because i like it and i like coming on the show. >> you're a suck up. >> you're a communist is what you are. >> irish sullivan. >> an irish communist. >> i like the chauffeur. >> you're just as bad. good-bye. >> actually, costs are going up. >> i have scarborough next to

sebelius. >> tomorrow, mayor michael bloomberg will join the conversation. >> that will be fun. also, retired general stanley mcchrystal will be here. to discuss his memoir about his career and the "rolling stone" article that ended it. i have a quiz coming up that all of you kid, wake up your parents. you're going to love this one. r. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid

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welcome back to "morning joe." earlier we brought up the fact that democrats had a shameful budget. republicans, john said, they didn't do great. but democrats have the record. so, i've got a question. sort of a match game question for you. mark halprin, we begin with you. how many days has it been since the democratic senate under the leadership of harry reid has put out a budget? >> days in a row? excites my tow, how many? >> 1365. >> 2514. >> 2514. >> i'm going high. >> that's a long time. >> i'm going high. >> brett summers, how many days

since the democrats put out a budget which tells americans what their priorities are instead of just attacking paul ryan for being responsible and putting out his budget? >> 1,349? >> the correct answer is. >> tell them what i've won. come on, i was like three weeks off. >> by the way, we would have also accepted three years, eight months and nine days. >> i want rice-a-roni and trip to palm springs. >> it's the san francisco treat. match game will return in a moment.

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i have me on my fantasy team. the jam, huh? 1987. >> no, earlier than that. >> '80, '81. >> whose brother chuck hagel -- the copy editors of politico. >> i learned. >> george allen the elder and andrea mitchell and i all agree. the future is now. >> future is now. go ahead and cash it all in. . that's what washington believes when it comes to the debt. >> soda pop, poison. >> i found out, 1,347 days -- >> 49. >> 49 days here since the democrats, since the democrats put out a budget.

it would be really good if they would consider doing that. if it's way too early, what time is it? >> it's "morning joe." >> stay tuned for the special episode of "daily rundown." >> chuck's on. >> he is actually working today. haggling over hagel. republicans have been trying to stop the nomination before it starts. but maybe senate democrats are determined the fate of their former republican colleague. even more intel on the second term teammates, the president want his top terror adviser to take over the cia. could his nomination become a proxy fight over the expanded use of drones in the battle against al qaeda? and some of the newest members of the senate from both parties push back on what the white house wants in the gun deba debate. good morning from washington, a very busy monday, january 7th, 2013. "daily rundown" i'm chuck todd.

president obama is set to name two new members of his national security team this afternoon. white house kaurnt terrorism adviser john bremmen to lead that agency and then picking former republican senator chuck hagel to lead the pentagon. this will be the third time the president has chosen a new defense secretary and for the second time the president's pick is a republican. but in many ways hagel is a man without a party. if his nomination starts going south in the senate, he may be left without a constituency. 55/45 majority in the senate. ten democratic senators could end up voting against hagel. top democrats have not expressed much support for the idea of hagel so far. >> i have to study his record, i will not comment until the president makes a nomination. >> he was pushed repeatedly